Conversation with an Envirornmentalist

Let me start by showing you what led to this converation, it all began innocently enough on facebook. I was doing on of those my 5's and the subject was 5 Things I Hate That Everyone Else Seems To Like

Sara Craib at 8:45pm May 6

Environmentalists and British people? and what's your reasoning for hating them?

Andrew D. Lacelle at 8:21am May 7

Environmentalists seem to think we alone as humans are the cause of the world's problems and also the solution. It's a very arrogant world view because this world has withstood ice ages, natural disasters and meteors, something tells me it will be able to handle plastic. Also the whole green trend is just another way of getting your green if you know what I mean. However the sheeple will always follow and obey whatever is told to them by guys who think they invented the internet.

Sara Craib at 10:07am May 7

I would think that it is more of an arrogant view to believe that because the earth handled an iceage, and natural disasters that everything will be fine.

Andrew D. Lacelle at 10:11am May 7

How long have humans been around? How long has the world been around? When it's all said and done the only proof we'll have even existed is the great wall of china and the pyramids. Some people just like to feel fear, look at the news, they use scare tactics all the time. Same with the environmentalists, create a panic and solve it by having people... Read More buy a carbon foot print. I tip my hat to them, they found a way to get cash from people who feel guilty about stuff they shouldn't so more power to them.

Sara Craib at 10:23am May 7

Sounds like more arrogance :) Watching your carbon foot print is more than just purchasing something green off the shelf, it's reducing what you use. It's about preserving our clean water, and walking somewhere instead of taking your car, or not buying a bunch of crap that you're just going to throw in the trash later. That's what a true environmentalist is.

ndrew D. Lacelle at 10:29am May 7

Yeah, something tells me you can do that all you want and it doesn't have nearly the effect you'd like to think so. We don't compare as individuals to the big companies who are out their doing there thing. It's just a way of self important people to feel better about themselves and so they won't have the guilt. Catholics did it, so did the jews, it's a way of controlling the weak minded people who are only too happy to lap up whatever they're given.

Andrew

howdy

10:28amSara

Howdy

10:28amAndrew

hey, just responding now

do you have msn?

10:28amSara

Lol yes

10:29amAndrew

lacelle316@hotmail.com

10:29amSara

Hm very nice

10:32amSara

Ah but it does make a difference, it may not be as great as I want it to be, but it's still making a difference.

10:32amAndrew

it's just used to help people sleep at night

have you watched the discovery program about what would happen to the world if humans became extinct?

10:33amSara

A little bit of it

10:33amAndrew

what did you think?

10:34amSara

Only saw a little bit of it

10:34amAndrew

I thought it was fairly profound about how we don't have as much impact as most people would have you believe

10:34amSara

But, wasn't it if humans became extinct now

10:34amAndrew

correct

the world would keep right on spinning

10:36amSara

but what about if humans didn't exist at all :)

10:37amAndrew

then there'd be no great wall

10:37amSara

and further more, how does that even prove your point at all?

10:37amAndrew

basically that our impact for better or for worse is greatly exagerated

we ourselves may have a declining quality of life

however

the world will go on

that's the part that always bugs me about enviros

they use planet, earth, global but not world, because world makes it sound too big

10:38amSara

How does it prove that our impact is for better?

10:39amAndrew

I didn't say for better

I said for better or for worse our impact is greatly exagerated

10:39amSara

"basically that our impact for better or for worse is greatly exagerated"

10:39amAndrew

whether that puts you in a category of people who think we're the chosen ones

or a category of people who have the audacity to think that humans of all things will be the demise of the world

10:40amSara

Lol the chosen ones? it's about reducing what we use, nothing more.

10:41amAndrew

that's like getting mad at the single fisherman for over fishing

the main proprietor is China

10:42amSara

and what, you're the only one that knows this?

10:42amAndrew

your carbon foot print has such a small effect it's like a baby humping a hooker

no, I'm not saying that

just saying it's unnecessary

10:42amSara

It isn't unnecessary

10:42amAndrew

and a way for people to feel better about themselves

kinda like runs for awareness

or tshirts to stop violence

10:42amSara

It's just about doing what you can, so you're atleast doing something.

10:42amAndrew

or concerts for peace

something?

10:43amSara

You're not just sitting there saying everything is for nothing, and the "world" will sort itself out

10:43amAndrew

it will

nature is funny that way

it can handle all we can dish out

10:43amSara

and a lot of "environmentalists" didn't agree with the concert for peace.

10:43amAndrew

well good for them

10:44amSara

and furthermore, nature cannot handle all we can dish out.

10:44amAndrew

sure it can

10:44amSara

Well, where are all the honey bees?

10:44amAndrew

hahahaha

10:44amSara

:P

10:44amAndrew

one species is not nature

and guess what

people die, species become extinct and the world remains

10:45amSara

Ah, but if one species becomes extinct from us, that's still a profound effect we have on nature

10:45amAndrew

we're a part of nature

if nature didn't want us to build shit, it wouldn't have given us opposable thumbs

tough titty for the honey bees

10:46amSara

yes, and we've been given the gift to decide for ourselves

10:46amAndrew

correct

so no pressure tacts from the green nazis

*tactics

10:46amSara

Yes, and we can all decide to stop consuming as much.

10:46amAndrew

or consume more

I'm just not a fan of the finger waggers

the people who sit up there on their high horse and decide what's best for everyone

10:47amSara

Exactly. Furthermore, the fact that one person can't make a difference, look at how much awareness we have now about the environment, it had to start somewhere.

10:47amAndrew

hahaha

awareness?

listen to yourself

what's awareness?

awareness is the ultimate bullshit story

10:48amSara

Awareness is realizing you're running the tap while you brush your teeth

10:48amAndrew

here, give this a read

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/23/18-awareness/

10:48amSara

Already read it

Thought it was funny

10:48amAndrew

it's spot fuckin' on

it's all about self satisfaction

under the guise of doing something better

10:50amSara

No it's not, I get no satisfaction. I don't get satisfaction when I recycle, I don't get any when I reduce what I use.

It's just about doing what you can, plain and simple.

10:51amAndrew

it's kinda like how I always had a little more respect for the people who donate their time and money anonymously instead of making it about them

reduce

recycle

but why you gotta make such a big deal out of it?

self satisfaction

smugness

sense of accomplishment

clap clap clap

10:52amSara

You're putting that label on people because you don't want to make and chances, and don't want to feel guilty about it

*changes

10:52amAndrew

it's not so much that you're "helping the environment" but people gotta know you are

look

I'm a poor man

I don't drive

I have my own problems

10:53amSara

Everyone has their own problems

10:53amAndrew

I don't not have a car so I can feel better about saving the world

I don't have a car cause I can't afford one

and the last thing I want or need is some granola telling me I should reduce my waste

10:54amSara

Well don't you live in Vancouver?

10:54amAndrew

correct

10:54amSara

Well who really needs a car in Vancouver?

10:54amAndrew

aka the land of finger waggers

10:56amSara

I'm having a daughter, and I can't sit here using everything up when I have a second generation I'm introducing to the world. It's not about me, it's about doing anything that I can, even if it makes little difference at all, atleast I've tried something.

10:57amAndrew

which is purely for yourself

why can't you admit that?

that's what it comes down to, doing things so you'll feel better about yourself

nothing wrong with that

10:57amSara

and furthermore, I am not claiming that you need to abolish everything plastic in your household, it's atleast making little chances in your life, that will not have a profound effect, but it's still something

10:57amAndrew

but it's the guise that drives me

10:58amSara

*changes

10:58amAndrew

change for change's sake is unnecessary

10:58amSara

It's not

10:58amAndrew

besides, I'm a misanthropic

10:58amSara

It's not for nothing

10:58amAndrew

sure it is

it will have zero effect in a million years

it will have zero effect in a week

it's all so people will feel like they've done something

10:59amSara

Ah, but it doesn't work that way. When I make changes, people around me make changes, and so forth

11:00amAndrew

what have you changed so far?

what's different about the environment thanks to you and your circle of friends?

11:01amSara

Haha, well I would say that upstairs they would probably consume roughly around 50 bottles of water

and now they don't

11:01amAndrew

and this has had what kind of impact?

11:01amSara

and that's within a week

11:02amAndrew

quality of life better or the same?

11:02amSara

well, that's 50 bottles of water everyweek that they're not wasting

11:02amAndrew

wasting?

were they not drinking the water?

11:03amSara

yes, but now they're not drinking it out of plastic, a nd just throwing it away

11:03amAndrew

and you don't see that as smugness?

11:03amSara

Nope

11:03amAndrew

interesting

11:03amSara

because I don't feel better about myself

11:03amAndrew

I guess we're all heroes in the plays of our lives

sure seems like it

11:04amSara

Why, because you see other people with smugness, I must be smug?

11:04amAndrew

no

11:04amSara

Yes

You've just told me about all these other people that feel so great and smug becase they threw a bottle in the recycling instead of the garbage

so therefor, whatever I do I must feel smug about

11:05amAndrew

did I say that?

11:05amSara

Yes

11:05amAndrew

I don't remember typing those words

let me scroll up

11:05amSara

I don't remember typing I was smug, but you seem to think so

11:06amAndrew

I didn't say you did though

I think you're smug

I believe you don't think you're smug

11:06amSara

Then what's the point of this argument? :P

11:06amAndrew

I don't view it as an argument

more like a conversation

11:07amSara

Well, discussion then

11:07amAndrew

I enjoy conversing with the enviro people and see where they're coming from

it helps add credibility to my stance

11:08amSara

How does what i've said add credibility to your stance?

11:08amAndrew

because of your conviction

once someone has put the ist or believes in an ism, they're gonna be tough nuts to crack

11:09amSara

I guess you must view watching what you use as some huge life change, it really isn't

Same goes for you

11:10amAndrew

I don't follow

I observe

and using objectivity find the holes in the theories

11:10amSara

You follow the view point that nothing can be done.

11:10amAndrew

see the weakness of the herds

I never said that

all sorts of stuff can be done

but my main point is that it's unnecessary

11:11amSara

Well what's going to be done with an attitude like yours?

11:11amAndrew

I don't feel much needs to be done

why does stuff have to be done?

who ever decided that?

how come I wasn't invited to the meeting?

was there punch served?

how about kool aid?

11:13amAndrew

people like to feel important, self importance keeps many people going

11:13amSara

Why do you even wake up in the morning? why do you feed yourself? why do you even live?

I can ask those kinds of questions too

Why do we do anything

11:13amAndrew

people want to feel like they're making a difference so they won't feel their life is essentially worthless

11:13amSara

why are we even here

11:13amAndrew

survival

we're here cause we're not all there

I eat to live

11:14amSara

We've erased plenty of instincts, I'm sure we can erase that one

11:14amAndrew

that's just silly talk

that's the most important instinct of all

11:14amSara

I mean, why anything. Why why why.

11:15amAndrew

the why's aren't important

it's the what's that matter

I don't care why I'm dying, I just care that I'm dying

I don't care why my pen works, I just care that it does

11:16amSara

My point is, you're saying why to everything. Why do I care, why do I bother, why do I try to make a difference when my difference isn't going to mean anythign.

I just care what's the matter :)

11:16amAndrew

what's the matter?

I never asked you why

that implies that I'd care about the answer

I'm not a why guy

you know the big problem with the why's?

11:17amSara

What's that

11:17amAndrew

they can be changed

which brain do we use to study the brains of other animals/

?

the human brain, kind of bias don't you think?

what do we know about man?

that he's usually wrong

11:18amSara

but what does this have to do about anything?

11:18amAndrew

you can bet on it

because you're asking these why's and the responses you'll get vary

with the what's it's more definite

11:19amSara

So, if we keep consuming fresh water at alarming rates, will it still always be here?

Probably not

Who knows

11:19amAndrew

as long as it keeps raining

11:19amSara

but where does the rain come from?

11:19amAndrew

here

there

everywhere

you don't have enough trust in our immune systems

you might wind up being one of those parents who won't take the kid off the tit

life is rough

11:20amSara

if we have no water, where's the rain going to come from?

11:20amAndrew

suck it up

we're this shortage of water?

*where's

11:20amSara

We're apart of it

Take the kid off where?

11:21amAndrew

off the tit

our immune system was built for challenges

11:21amSara

You're right, I do plan to breast feed for a long time

:)

11:21amAndrew

you're trying to make everything too easy

11:21amSara

It's not easy

11:21amAndrew

thus raising a generation of pussies

11:22amSara

I think you've completely interpreted what I've said to you the wrong way.

11:23amAndrew

no, I'm fairly sure I'm aware

you watched An Inconvenient Truth and are now an expert on the subject

11:23amSara

I didn't want to watch that film

and I haven't

11:24amAndrew

well that's a relief

but you're still drinking the kool aid

11:24amSara

Being "aware" is more than about scaring people

11:25amAndrew

correct, it's about feeling like you've done something

thus the smugness

here's a question

name one person you know who isn't aware of the environment

11:25amSara

My husband

11:25amAndrew

go ahead, ask all the contacts who are online

he doesn't know about the environment?

11:25amSara

Who is exactly like you

No, he has no clue

:)

11:25amAndrew

doesn't know that it exists?

well there you go

I'm sure you two have some lovely conversations

11:27amSara

No, he has his own opinions, that's fine. The only thing I tell him is not to be wasteful for the sake of being wasteful.

11:27amAndrew

I'm saving this convo and making a note of it, do I have your permission?

11:27amSara

If he runs the water while brushing his teeth, when he's not using it. I tell him to turn it off, what's the point of wasting it if you're not using it.

No :P

11:28amAndrew

how come?

11:28amSara

I don't know, because I talked to you privately about it.

11:29amAndrew

what if I covered up your name?

I was thinking of titling it "Conversation with an Environmentalist"

cause I think this has been a good one

11:29amSara

It's not just that, I was talking to you not anybody else. If I wanted other people to read our conversation, I would have just posted it on your facebook.

11:29amAndrew

fine

11:29amSara

Thank youu

11:29amAndrew

you're welcome

Sara

and furthermore, I do not get a long with other people that tote themselves "environmentalists"

11:30amAndrew

self hating jews feel the same way about jews

11:31amSara

Haha

No it's not like that at all

Just other people have different views about what the environment needs, and doesn't need

and I'm not an extremist, so I can't always agree with them

11:32amAndrew

neat